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Furcadia - The Second Dreaming!!
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> Enough Is Enough
Nommad
post Jan 11 2010, 07:40 PM
Post #1
Group: Furres

Nommad

I've watched the threads spiraling out of control with mountains being made out of molehills, feeling being hurt on both sides of the isle as well any "innocent" bystander that have gotten in the way.

On the one hand a group that feels their needs are not being met to their satisfaction expressing their discontent to an extreme using big production company examples of how DEP should be run.
PR, development, etc. etc.

On the other hand more of an "Ensemble" we know as the DEP that has been running on a shoestring to create, maintain and enhance this Dream they call Furcadia. It's as close to a mom and pop operation as any other you will find and not some big company so many seem to think it is. I still find it quite amazing that DEP continues to move forward even at a slow pace and all the while with some fantastic ideas and plans they hope to bring to fruition in the future.

I'm very excited about quite a few aspects of the new update and believe it ran into some serious bugs that have to be resolved before it can go live. I truely believe it was intended to be realeased on or near Christmas Day and the excitement to get it released (and dissappointment) at the delay has just ignited these forums with a lot of undue accusations, ranting and name calling that is doing nothing but spiraling out of control.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and stand down for a bit.

Why?
So DEP can quit wasting time trying to stamp out all these fires and get back to working on the update... I can be patient will DEP (though a little frustrated and disappointed since my "Christmas" present wasn't "Tied up with a String")... but what's really wearing my patience thin are all the fires a few pyromaniacs keep setting.

I just want to hose em all down and then take a shower to wash off the stink of the smoke.
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Joanatha
post Jan 11 2010, 07:44 PM
Post #2
Group: Furres

Joanatha

**launches a load of cookies at Nommad's head**

Take them now! You deserve them for saying this! Perhaps people will see this and realize that they have wasted virtually three days of development on the update.
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Rat The Unloved
post Jan 11 2010, 07:59 PM
Post #3
Group: DEP Staff

Rat The Unloved

Despite the fact that any positive commentary on my (or anyone's) part will be chocked up to posterior puckering, I agree. There is a lot of lucid, useful, dialogue coming out of these threads, but there's a real need to ease up on it for the time being.

You will catch more furres with lollipops than napalm. tongue.gif
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Rydia Aslin
post Jan 11 2010, 08:04 PM
Post #4
Group: Furres

Rydia Aslin

A lot of the negative comments seem to be coming from the same few - maybe ten - people, too. I wonder how many people there are who are lurking (like moi!) who think things are going okay?

I don't necessarily agree with every decision or comment that's been made by DEP, but... C'mon. They do awesome things, too, like running the darned game. :3
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Squizzle
post Jan 11 2010, 08:23 PM
Post #5
Group: Furres

Squizzle

You might just start a mountain out of a molehill by starting your post like that Nommad. But I agree with you.
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Shayde
post Jan 11 2010, 09:44 PM
Post #6
Group: Furres

Shayde

Having been a stalker of these argument threads for the last week-ish, I can say that I totally agree with you, Nommad, and appreciate the thread. tongue.gif I'm hardly a posterior-puckerer, but I really detest an argument in place of construction.

DEP have their shortcomings. The playerbase have their own shortcomings as well. The argument could go on all night and nothing would really change in the end. I know people are probably going to jump on this thread and freak out, but I for one am in favor of ending the ridiculousness. So thanks. *cookies*
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Targath
post Jan 11 2010, 09:45 PM
Post #7
Group: Furres

Targath

I agree as well, and in a failed attempt on my part, tried to basically say the same thing after giving an answer to some questions in another thread though I personally felt that the person who posted it did so in an attempt to start another fire. Perhaps my reply just added fuel to the flames, though I was serious in asking those that I perceived as holding the matches to simply refrain from starting any more.

How is it that someone who was and is basically happy with Furcadia (me) can suddenly find themselves feeling as if they are caught in the middle of some crossfire of which they want no part? I am no posterior puckerer, but am overall mostly satisfied with the game and its community. However, I think I will be taking a short vacation just to get some fresh air after inhaling all the gunsmoke over the last few days.
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Calib
post Jan 11 2010, 10:09 PM
Post #8
Group: Furres

Calib

QUOTE (Squizzle @ Jan 11 2010, 08:23 PM) *
You might just start a mountain out of a molehill by starting your post like that Nommad. But I agree with you.

Yeah... though I also feel that there is a lot of quiet issues bubbling to the surface here that have been stewing for a lot of folks. Some of the things people keep dragging up show a lot of research/collecting time that only such stewing can create.

At least all the news that kinda went haywire shows that something is happening and hopefully good things will be showing up soon. smile.gif
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Gerolkae
post Jan 11 2010, 10:44 PM
Post #9
Group: Furres

Gerolkae

*munches on Popcorn*
And Here I thought the Good Entertainment happened when Furc Crashes.. Always gotta be some Crabbies out there.
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Heavens cat
post Jan 11 2010, 11:03 PM
Post #10
Group: Furres

Heavens cat

*plays himself the world's smallest violin*

I've placed myself in this really wacky position where I consider myself primarily neutral (with some pro-DEP bias that I don't consider unfounded) but I've still chosen to engage myself in the discussions to some extent on top of lurking quietly, both here on the forums in the respective topics as well as on the FAM forums to try and piece together the whole story.

I appreciate the position OP stated, but I disagree insofar as I read the post with implications of lost time. I disagree because I hope this opportunity allows some rekindling between DEP and the core of dissatisfied players. cat-optimistic.gif
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Cironir
post Jan 11 2010, 11:47 PM
Post #11
Group: DEP Admins

Cironir

QUOTE (Rydia Aslin @ Jan 11 2010, 08:04 PM) *
A lot of the negative comments seem to be coming from the same few - maybe ten - people, too. I wonder how many people there are who are lurking (like moi!) who think things are going okay?


I'm glad someone notices this. cat-amused.gif All of this was started by one person who has personal issues with DEP and spent considerable time and energy on spreading disharmony. A few people jumped on the bandwagon, for different reasons. I talked to some, made offers on how to actually contribute, and received empty promises and zero material to work with. Then the same people began to use alts to continue the "attacks". The time consuming part is to figure out who actually wants to contribute constructive suggestions and who is just after the attention, really. It's unfair that the loudest often get the most attention, and those who are quieter or simply happy with how things are don't get noticed by their peers. We do know, though, that many of you are positive, have good ideas, make suggestions calmly and care about Furcadia, and enjoy the service DEP provides. We appreciate this and are grateful for it, and for you.

Anyway, don't let it get to you. It doesn't mean we aren't working on other stuff. cat-ecstatic.gif
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Darien
post Jan 11 2010, 11:54 PM
Post #12
Group: Furres

Darien

There's a lot that I want to say, but I can't think of a remotely nice way to say it. So I'll just leave it the fact that I agree with Nommad and this crap has got to stop. Enough is Enough. DEP has done nothing but bend over backwards for it's userbase- even these trolls and it irks me to no end to have to see it happen.
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Runetta
post Jan 12 2010, 12:25 AM
Post #13
Group: Furres

Runetta

Here's another nod to Nommad's point:

How do potential players
(people who are looking to join out community, but haven't yet) see all this hot-headed finger pointing and arguing?

Chances are, They look at us arguing amongst ourselves and go "Why would I want to get mixed this mess?"

The forums are probably people's first impression of our community and culture. The means a handful of people and/or threads can make the game as a whole look bad. And that scares off potential money-bringers. That hurts DEP and the players suffer. The players tire of the suffering despite the tireless work of the few staff members trying to please them. And then it starts all over again! Just think about it.

If we can't get along with ourselves, how can we expect to grow and improve with us?
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Ataxian
post Jan 12 2010, 12:49 AM
Post #14
Group: Furres

Ataxian

Agreed! That's all I have to say.
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Darien
post Jan 12 2010, 12:56 AM
Post #15
Group: Furres

Darien

QUOTE (Runetta @ Jan 12 2010, 12:25 AM) *
Here's another nod to Nommad's point:

How do potential players
(people who are looking to join out community, but haven't yet) see all this hot-headed finger pointing and arguing?

Chances are, They look at us arguing amongst ourselves and go "Why would I want to get mixed this mess?"

The forums are probably people's first impression of our community and culture. The means a handful of people and/or threads can make the game as a whole look bad. And that scares off potential money-bringers. That hurts DEP and the players suffer. The players tire of the suffering despite the tireless work of the few staff members trying to please them. And then it starts all over again! Just think about it.

If we can't get along with ourselves, how can we expect to grow and improve with us?


This I agree with entirely, and it is my sincere hope that those who continue to instigate this inane and pointless squabbling will be deemed detrimental to the community as a whole and given the choice to cease their behavior or find another community to torment. There are many users with valid concerns- all of which DEP spends quite a bit of time and effort addressing.

Sadly they also spend quite a bit of time and effort addressing those who complain just to complain and have no interest in working anything out. This is what troubles me- and reflects so negatively upon Furcadia.
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Rydia Aslin
post Jan 12 2010, 01:27 AM
Post #16
Group: Furres

Rydia Aslin

QUOTE
The time consuming part is to figure out who actually wants to contribute constructive suggestions and who is just after the attention, really.

I can understand totally those who have legitimate concerns and bring them up sensibly, without attacks or getting hypersensitive about things - whether it's on a forum post, or in PMs to you guys, or whatever. DEP has always seemed very open to suggestions, to me - it's just, of course, that some of these suggestions will be confronted with 'no, we can't or won't do that', and it seems this is where a lot of the split between 'constructive' and 'attention-seeking' happens.

Like Runetta says, those attention seekers are taking resources and potentially new additions to our community away. I know they're upset with DEP, for whatever reason, but all of this negativity seems to be the least effective way to go about getting concerns addressed.

QUOTE
Anyway, don't let it get to you. It doesn't mean we aren't working on other stuff.

Hehe, I could say the same - don't let yourselves be too distracted by all the drama. I'm sure there's a more than sizeable crowd of us who are fine enough with the way things are going, even if we are the silent majority.
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Sanne
post Jan 12 2010, 04:36 AM
Post #17
Group: Furres

Sanne

QUOTE
A lot of the negative comments seem to be coming from the same few - maybe ten - people, too. I wonder how many people there are who are lurking (like moi!) who think things are going okay?


I think that's the main problem. It's just a small group of people who have a personal grudge towards DEP. The fact one of those people was offered a chance to bring suggestions to Cironir himself but never took him up on it, yet continues to argue on those threads, makes it appear as if they're only after any chance to bash DEP and nothing more. Which by itself should say plenty about who we're dealing with, no?

I'm happy to see that we have well over 10 people on this thread's first page who are in agreement with DEP though. biggrin.gif We needed some of this positive attitude around. <33
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Horatio
post Jan 12 2010, 05:06 AM
Post #18
Group: Furres

Horatio

QUOTE (Sanne @ Jan 12 2010, 04:36 AM) *
I think that's the main problem. It's just a small group of people who have a personal grudge towards DEP. The fact one of those people was offered a chance to bring suggestions to Cironir himself but never took him up on it, yet continues to argue on those threads, makes it appear as if they're only after any chance to bash DEP and nothing more. Which by itself should say plenty about who we're dealing with, no?

I'm happy to see that we have well over 10 people on this thread's first page who are in agreement with DEP though. biggrin.gif We needed some of this positive attitude around. <33


I'm one of the people who disagree and no where have I said I have a personal grudge towards DEP.
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Nemo Kiana
post Jan 12 2010, 07:54 AM
Post #19
Group: Furres

Nemo Kiana

I don't have much to add, being one of those silent
lurkers, but three cheers for this thread.

I am empathetic toward those who were expressing their concerns, particularly if their intentions are genuine concern for a community they care about. DEP made a mistake, people want something done about it. I understand that a lot of people are angry, and they want something done, changed. They also want acknowledgement of issues. I understand that.

People expressed thanks in those threads for DEP's responces being so polite. However, when I read DEP's responces, beyond the respect and polite words, I also saw the stress and strain they are under. "We are doing our best, we are only human..." (paraphrasing, sorry). Maybe that was just me, I don't know. But it is clearly a very difficult time, and reading the tiredness/stress I sensed between the lines, I thought, "Give them a break."

QUOTE (Heavens cat @ Jan 11 2010, 11:03 PM) *
I appreciate the position OP stated, but I disagree insofar as I read the post with implications of lost time. I disagree because I hope this opportunity allows some rekindling between DEP and the core of dissatisfied players. cat-optimistic.gif

Even if a bit of 'lost time' was expressed in the OP, I don't think 'lost time' is the core of what's being expressed here. I'm all for rekindling between DEP and dissatisfied players. If it can be done, it may be beneficial for both sides. Certainly, I tend to believe that talking things out peacefully is better than arguments. And a safe, respectful thread like the one Felorin posted ("Does DEP Listen?") is a good way to go about it, since I'd like to think it provides a safe, non-threatening environment for all parties. However, this is not the best time for it. It isn't just because of 'lost time' they could spend working on the update, but the stress they are under of trying to get the update out, respond to the dissastified player-base, and do the 85940358340 other things they normally do, all while probably sleep deprived.

I suppose what I am saying is "enough is enough--for now". The dissatisfied players have been saying that they are only expressing their concerns because they care about Furcadia. If that is true, please take a look at all the hard work DEP is doing, and the stress they are under, and at least consider waiting until things cool off a bit. If you want what is best for Furcadia, this may not be the best time to be expressing you dissatisfaction. Like I said, I empathise with those who are angry, but I think a little time and patience is needed (even though a lot of those who are angry may be tired of waiting and being patient). DEP isn't at their best right now; that makes it harder to ease the tension and find solutions that will please people. This is a community where when change is desired, everyone has to be on the same page by talking things out; where when change is desired, it cannot be DEP alone. Those who seek change must be part of the solution (e.g. the offer to compile a list of complaints AND possible solutions, an offer I hope someone will seriously consider taking DEP up on!).

They're doing their best. And as others have said: they're human. DEP is certainly willing to listen to everyone's concerns, but please at least give them a break 'til after the update? ^^;

Edit: Since first writing this post, I have been reading some other things, which have given me a slightly broader perspective. It was, at first, a simple "please be patient with DEP" in support of this topic, but I have since been trying to add more understanding of the other side. I now wish to clarify that I am not trying to take either side here. I don't fully understand DEP's position, and I don't fully understand the position of those who disagree with them. I don't fully support DEP, and I don't fully support those who disagree. When I read one side, I am empathetic toward their position; when I read the other side, I am empathetic toward them! Patience is needed on all sides. I simply hope things work out for the best, for as many people as possible. I suppose I am getting rather off-topic now... Well, either way, here is good luck and wishing all the best to ANYONE (DEP or those who are unhappy with DEP) who simply care about Furcadia and are only trying to do what they think is best, since sometimes people can have radically different views on what they think is 'best'!
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Shinichi Kudo
post Jan 12 2010, 01:22 PM
Post #20
Group: Furres

Shinichi Kudo

It makes me angry to see how people are treating DEP... it's horrible - BUT: I also don't like how the other side is seeing DEP as some sort of charity. It is true: DEP doesn't have to do this, but they want to. The same counts for every company. If they don't want to do it, they can simply shut Furcadia down. They don't, so I assume that they still enjoy Furcadia. I don't like it how some say that we should be "grateful" for the updates. 

I believe both sides are exaggerating. DEP isn't making this update for *me*. They do it for their own personal reasons. A positive side effect is, that people will be happy. However, DEP also isn't a terrible dictator who doesn't care about the people who play this game. Let's all calm down and try to have a normal debate again, because both sides are starting to look ridiculous. 

DEP isn't a dictator, DEP isn't a charity: DEP is a company.

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