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> Bad Dog Treats, --don't buy this noxious ****
Talzhemir
post Jun 27 2009, 02:17 AM
Post #1
Group: DEP Staff

Talzhemir

I'm really upset about now...

I purchased this dog-chew sold under the name Chew-a-Bull, and let the 50 pound pup eat about 1/6th of one. I noticed he got through it quite rapidly, which didn't seem right for a 'bully stick'.

Some hours later, he lay down looking gloomy, and moaned. When I took him outside, he had violent diarrhea. I've given dogs "bully sticks" (bull penis) before and never had that happen, either.

Looking at the label more carefully, I noticed it said, "made with" Bully Sticks.

I took the rest of the stick and soaked it in water overnight. The brown coating came off, and it exploded into ragged mush.

So it's not actual bully stick. It's extruded starchy product and hell-knows-what, VERY CONVINCINGLY molded and pressed into the shape of a real pizzle.

Going over the ingredients, here's what it says:

potato starch
meat by-product (that would be the 'hell knows what' part)
corn starch
sorbitol
liver
cellulose
water
egg
lecithin
calcium stearate
titanium dioxide
caramel color
sorbic acid

So that's what I get for not reading the microscopic print on the back. It has more 'potato starch' than anything else in it. There's more 'sorbitol' artificial sweetener than liver, and more 'corn starch' than 'meat by-product'. It was on the pet store rack with pig ears and rawhide.

I owe my poor pooch SUCH an apology.

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs47/f/2009/178..._Talzhemir1.gif


Jeers to PetSmart for selling this harmful crap
with misleading presentation and sly label!
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Xxysthstris
post Jun 27 2009, 03:00 AM
Post #2
Group: Furres

Xxysthstris

Nasty.
If you've not done so already, will you approach PetSmart about the product?

I've seen a few products under the Pedigree label change in smell here over the past few months, primarily their dentabones -- Dentabones sold by Pedigree had a caramel-beefy smell to them and held an almost solid consistency, but over the past few months it's gone to more of a rubber-fish stench with more of a soft rock candy consistency. Yuck. -- Suffice to say, I'm not buying them anymore.

An alternative would be checking in with your local butcher (either deli ro supermarket) for milk bones. Not sure if it's legal to do so in America or not though.

If you want to be creative, have a go at making your own (though I hear that any liver treats can stink your kitchen out and ruin a baking tray).

http://www.dogaware.com/treatref.html is one reference available.
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Mredria
post Jun 27 2009, 06:20 AM
Post #3
Group: Furres

Mredria

The same thing happened to me with this same product.
It doesn't so much enrage me THAT they sell it, but that they sell it next to the bully sticks and whatnot.
Petsmart did, however, allow me to bring back the half opened bag and return it when I told them that I had thought it was a bully stick and that it had made my dog sick.
I was conned because I thought it was a really good price for a pack of bully sticks. Hah.
I buy bully sticks online in lots of 75 now. They keep really well in a dry place!
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Talzhemir
post Jun 27 2009, 05:52 PM
Post #4
Group: DEP Staff

Talzhemir

PetSmart manager's response:
"well, you have to understand that not all dogs experience this..."

No. No, I don't 'have to understand'.

Exactly how many dogs have to experience painful cramps before it's taken off the shelves or at least not placed next to the safer product?

How many other distraught pet parents are going to be given pointed hints there's something freakishly unusual about their pet?

"...and it can happen if they get too much..."

wow. She never asked how large he was, or how much he ate. 1/6 of a stick is one ounce.

Mostly what was upsetting was the 100% sympathy-free reaction which makes me conclude that this is NOT unusual, and that I've just been pedalled a stock excuse for a chronic complaint.

To its credit, PetSmart offered a refund, but I can't just settle for that. What they're doing is wrong, and the response I received assures me I'm probably not the only one.

She should at least expressed some concern that maybe this was a contaminated batch (possible, right?) and taken its serial number down.

So... I'm still cat-scratchin' mad!
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Goliath Lucky
post Jun 27 2009, 06:33 PM
Post #5
Group: Furres

Goliath Lucky

Sorry Tal....

I don't know what to tell you - accept Don't buy/give any more and talk to Pet Smart (t) again and try to get someone else that looks/sounds he/shemight do something.... And almost all dog treats have the phone number to call if something goes wrong or if you have questions/comments/suggesioins/or problems

Try to look around on the bag like in the little itty bitty printing under the ingredients list 'cuz it really isn't petsmart's (t) fault they got a sickening unhealthy product to sell... but if it is going to have any affect on any sort of dog that is unsual/harmful they should take if off the shelves

As for now I wish you the best of luck about trying to get that nasty crap off the shelves smile.gif ~Goli
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Xxysthstris
post Jun 27 2009, 06:38 PM
Post #6
Group: Furres

Xxysthstris

From that response, I assume the manager has no clue what the product actually is anyway. They may be under the impression that it is simply what it says it is.

With poor grade food, especially food that isn't what the packaging says it is, is to take it back for a practical example exposing the flaw. And if that doesn't turn them, take it up with whoever oversees the purchasing of the product and affiliate companies wjho may be out of touch with how bad it is.

Heck, make a video of it emulsifying and stick it up on YouTube.
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Dream Dancer
post Jun 27 2009, 08:16 PM
Post #7
Group: DEP Staff

Dream Dancer

File a complaint. And not with petsmart, that would be a waste of time.
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Talzhemir
post Jun 27 2009, 11:48 PM
Post #8
Group: DEP Staff

Talzhemir

File a complaint? I think I will. The label on the product has an address and a phone number.

The sticker on the back of the label reads 080606 I'm guessing that means, processed in 2008?

--but there is a second sticker underneath it, which is covering up a previous sticker. I'll ask if that's normal.
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Mredria
post Jun 28 2009, 06:36 AM
Post #9
Group: Furres

Mredria

If you want to get really honkin' mad, read some reviews on Greenies.
Those damn things made my dog sick for a week and brought us very close to a 1500$ surgery.
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Ghost Tiger
post Jun 28 2009, 08:09 AM
Post #10
Group: Furres

Ghost Tiger

My cat loves Greenies (the little treats, not the toothbrushes.) That's all I know.
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Tillandsia
post Jun 28 2009, 10:38 AM
Post #11
Group: Furres

Tillandsia

Honestly just looking at the picture and package I can tell it isn't a real bully stick just from how it looks more like basted/colored raw-hide-ish material. It looks thicker than pizzles/bullysticks usually are as well.

Regardless of that, it isn't really Petsmart's fault. It could have simply been a case of your dog's stomach being unable to handle a type of food it isn't use to. Just because one dog's stomach reacted badly doesn't mean all dogs who eat the product have the same issues. Especially when most commercially sold dog food is corn and other crap filler- sadly there are many dogs out there who are use to eating horrible quality food.

It says on the label what it is made of, even if it is small. Just make sure to always read that stuff in the future.

This is why I only buy my dogs food with whole meats as the first two/three ingredients, and things that are corn-free and I make sure there isn't any questionable stuff like "meat by-product" etc. There are plenty of healthy good quality dog treats out there, just be more careful in reading labels etc before you buy.
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Talzhemir
post Jun 28 2009, 08:41 PM
Post #12
Group: DEP Staff

Talzhemir

hi, Tillandsia.

QUOTE
Honestly just looking at the picture and package I can tell it isn't a real bully stick just from how it looks more like basted/colored raw-hide-ish material.


Fresh bully sticks start out raw-hide colored and look just like rawhide. They're not naturally dark brown.

I think the reasonable consumer, the typical consumer, is NOT going to know them apart. Here's a photo, with Chew-A-Bull on the left and Bully Sticks on the right:

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs46/f/2009/179..._Talzhemir1.jpg

Notice that they're by the same company, so they have a very similar label, and they hang side-by-side in the store. Yes, they're not identical, but I concluded that meant they were prepared slightly differently from each other.

For one thing, they've all been dipped in some sort of gloppy brown coating.

QUOTE
It looks thicker than pizzles/bullysticks usually are as well.


No, the real ones do come in that size. (The smaller end is much tougher, so a dog chew is a logical choice for what to do with it.) The big end is generally ground up fine, cooked slightly, then processed into hotdogs and sausages. When not thrown to the dogs, the thick part of the bully stick is normally part of a product worth $5-6 a pound.

It takes 1.5 pounds of bull to make 1 large bully stick. That'd be $7.50 worth of hotdogs.

A real Bully Stick that size sells for $8.75 and up.
http://greatgreenpet.com/2009/06/14/free-r...er-bully-stick/

One Chew-A-Bull sells for $7.95.

By now, if you didn't know already, you can guess the motive in selling a mainly potato/corn/soybean imitation.

Going back to PetSmart, I took a much more careful look.

Notice that Chew-a-Bulls are carefully molded into pizzle shape-- they have all the wrinkles and bulges where a bully stick would have them.

They use several different molds so that they don't all look identical. They're clearly imitation bull pizzle. In fact, they each have small circular marks from the mold on the back of them.

Of course, we know they're not marketing to dogs, they're marketing to us funny hyoomans. A dog wouldn't care if you made it look like an authentic pizzle or Michael Jackson.

It sure does seem like the main point of *this* shape, and packaging it exactly like the real thing, and selling it next to the real thing, is to trick people into thinking they are buying bully sticks.

QUOTE
Regardless of that, it isn't really Petsmart's fault.


I disagree.

Is RedBarn trying to cheat us? Given the spurious shape, maybe, but... Okay, maybe not: RedBarn Inc. sells Chew-A-Bulls 35 for $203. That's $5.80 each. They are not sold as Bully Sticks, and they're sold in the "Deli" section of RedBarn's web site. Bully Sticks get their own section.
http://www.redbarninc.com/pc-122-18-chew-a-bulls.aspx

Who prices the Chew-A-Bull at $7.95...? PetSmart does.

Who puts them on the shelf with the Bully Sticks, and not with the processed treats? PetSmart.

Is that legal? Sure it is. But it's also a clear sign PetSmart has no intention of being up-front with you, or me.

They offered a refund. I don't just want a refund for when I've been tricked into buying a harmful imitation product that gives my poor dog explosive diarrhea. I want to know that they care enough to prevent that from happening to me and to everybody else, again.

If your grocer tried to sell pre-packaged hamburger
...dyed red,
...but with nearly the same label and packaging as the real beef
...but made with over 80% potato, corn, and soybean
...and it was right next to that same company's all-beef products
don't you think the grocer is partly responsible?

Either they're very irresponsible, or, that store is a knowing accomplice to a swindle.

Now imagine that *some* customers get painful cramps and diarrhea from a product.

Shouldn't the grocer at LEAST try to find out more about that product, just in case it was contaminated...?

QUOTE
It could have simply been a case of your dog's stomach being unable to handle a type of food it isn't use to.


True. Or it could be a sign of bacterial contamination.

HYPOTHETICAL POP QUIZ! You're a retailler and you've just sold jars of peanut butter and *some* of your customers got cramps and diarrhea from it!

Should you...

QUOTE
a) tell the customer, "This happened because you weren't used to it. Quick, have some MORE and do it every day!"

b) keep selling it, and tell anybody who complains, "There's nothing wrong, it's just that you must've eaten too much of it at once, or, there's something freaky about YOU."?

Or

c) pull it because it could be carrying salmonella, which can infect both the person eating it *and* the person casually handling an unwashed package of it in the kitchen, something which can easily contaminate a "meat by-product", something which occasionally kills people... and then inform your peanut butter supplier that maybe something's wrong?


You've just suggested a) and b) to me. Hmm.

QUOTE
It says on the label what it is made of, even if it is small. Just make sure to always read that stuff in the future.


LOL. Thanks; you're preachin' to the choir, there. I'm normally a very avid label-reader.

In fact, I'm so picky about my food that most of it has never worn a label of any kind whatsoever.

QUOTE
This is why I only buy my dogs food with whole meats as the first two/three ingredients, and things that are corn-free and I make sure there isn't any questionable stuff like "meat by-product" etc.


Whole meats? You're such an awesome pet-parent. Tell me, is that meat cooked?

There is one enormous entire aisle at PetSmart set aside for packets of real meat strips, bones, rawhide, pig's ears, beef hooves, pizzles and other visibly-animal bodyparts.

Besides all looking a bit gruesome at first, there's a crucial reason those things should get their own shelf: they are all high in collagen, they contain high concentrations of carnosine, and they contain high concentrations of carnitine. Carnitine enables (and highly encourages) the body to process fat into energy.

In addition to being "mystery meats", "meat by-products" are usually heavily cooked. So is nearly all the "whole meat" in processed dog food. In my opinion, it's pretty much meat-based junk food because cooking destroys the molecular integrity of collagen, carnosine, and carnitine.

We can't all be like Cesar Milan and feed an all-meat dog food, but your pet might benefit from a small amount of ground raw fat-free meat from time to time, to keep from bloating up with fat that they can't burn off.

It's not enough to just dodge "cereal fillers" such as corn.

QUOTE
just be more careful in reading labels etc before you buy.


*sigh*

That still doesn't do a damn thing for the next poor dog to get one of these so-called "treats".

I had a lot of trust in PetSmart, because I had thought they actually understood a dog's needs. They had separated these products from the milk bones, beggin' strips, and Kong Stuff'n liver-flavored biscuits, which is appropriate because of VERY VERY VERY critical nutritional reasons.

(Precisely why I came to be in that aisle in the first place, purchasing pizzle, is a story unto itself, one not related to dogs, a story that I may someday tell here.)

=========

I'm calling RedBarn soon. I'll let you know how that goes.

Everybody, give your cat, dog, parakeet, hamster, scorpion, etc. a hug for me.
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Tillandsia
post Jun 29 2009, 05:11 PM
Post #13
Group: Furres

Tillandsia

QUOTE (Talzhemir @ Jun 28 2009, 08:41 PM) *
Who puts them on the shelf with the Bully Sticks, and not with the processed treats? PetSmart.

I think this is a bit misleading, having spent a good deal of time in my local PetSmart, and I assume they are all set up in the same manner, there is a "CHEW treat" area and a "EDIBLE (By edible I mean quickly eaten food-like treats)/training treat" area. There is no different sections for processed vs. natural treats/chews.

QUOTE (Talzhemir)
They offered a refund. I don't just want a refund for when I've been tricked into buying a harmful imitation product that gives my poor dog explosive diarrhea. I want to know that they care enough to prevent that from happening to me and to everybody else, again.

If your grocer tried to sell pre-packaged hamburger
...dyed red,
...but with nearly the same label and packaging as the real beef
...but made with over 80% potato, corn, and soybean
...and it was right next to that same company's all-beef products
don't you think the grocer is partly responsible?


I think it depends on if the information on the product was available to me, obviously the packages cannot be 100% the same, or yes, the grocer would be responsible. It would be misleading to market something like that as "Made with real beef!" when real beef might only make up 20% actual meat, but things like that still happen. By law there are certain percentages of the actual real product that has to be in there depending on what the package claims.
There are so many products out there like you are describing, things that imitate a higher-quality product that are actually lower quality. This type of questionable practice is nothing new. I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just pointing out it is done with a lot of products, and it is important to educate yourself as a consumer. (Something I know you're not unfamiliar with, I'm sure you already know a lot of what I'm saying.)

QUOTE (Talzhemir)
HYPOTHETICAL POP QUIZ! You're a retailler and you've just sold jars of peanut butter and *some* of your customers got cramps and diarrhea from it!

Should you...

You've just suggested a) and b) to me. Hmm.


Of course you're in the right to complain to the seller and manufacturer that the product did this, but what if you're the first person to complain to them about the product, or what if they only get that complained once every couple weeks? That isn't so often that it couldn't be attributed to an owner giving their dog something that their stomach wasn't adjusted for. Even very high-quality dog food and products can cause a dog to have stomach upset or loose stools if they aren't use to it. Switching a dog onto a raw diet that isn't use to it is sometimes a fairly long process because it takes their digestive system time to adjust. That doesn't immediately mean there is something wrong with the food.

Obviously A and B in the scenario are the more likely things unless there have been other complaints. It isn't likely that because one dog gets diarrhea there MUST be some sort of bacterial contamination.

QUOTE (Talzhemir)
LOL. Thanks; you're preachin' to the choir, there. I'm normally a very avid label-reader.

In fact, I'm so picky about my food that most of it has never worn a label of any kind whatsoever.


Haha I know this, which is kind of why I'm surprised you bought the product!


QUOTE (Talzhemir)
Whole meats? You're such an awesome pet-parent. Tell me, is that meat cooked?

We can't all be like Cesar Milan and feed an all-meat dog food, but your pet might benefit from a small amount of ground raw fat-free meat from time to time, to keep from bloating up with fat that they can't burn off.

It's not enough to just dodge "cereal fillers" such as corn.


No I don't feed raw, I really can't feasible do that living where I am right now in a small apartment with a very small fridge! I plan on incorporating more raw meats into my dogs diets in the future though. For now they are usually happy with their occasional scraps of raw they get when I cook meat. Not only do they get a healthy snack but it puts scraps that would otherwise get thrown away to good use! And boy do they loooooove it!

Still I make sure to buy the highest quality dog foods I can, it is important for whole meat (Listed as "Bison, Venison, Duck, Chicken.") to be the first several ingredients. There are a lot of high-quality dry and wet dog foods to choose from; Taste of the Wild (what my dogs eat), Innova, Merrik, Orijen, Wellness. The "Chicken soup" products are also really good, and Blue Buffalo is decent which I believe is available from PetSmart.

A lot of people say these brands are too expensive, but for the most part dogs don't need to eat as much of them because they get a lot more nutrition from them compared to the brands full of fillers. Not only that but they usually make a lot less poop because their body is absorbing more of the food and making less waste! What dog owner wouldn't want that? smile.gif




QUOTE (Talzhemir)
*sigh*

That still doesn't do a damn thing for the next poor dog to get one of these so-called "treats".

I had a lot of trust in PetSmart, because I had thought they actually understood a dog's needs. They had separated these products from the milk bones, beggin' strips, and Kong Stuff'n liver-flavored biscuits, which is appropriate because of VERY VERY VERY critical nutritional reasons.


I think PetSmart is more decent than PetCo, but they both still sell a lot of products with filler and meat-by-product, there isn't any one store I know of to go where I wouldn't have to read the labels but I have been able to find several stores near me that sell mostly high-quality dog foods. One happens to be a normal human health food shop and they also stock a lot of very healthy all-natural dog treats as well.



Anyways I hope the pup is doing better and it was just a case of food that didn't quite agree with his stomach.
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Remus
post Jun 29 2009, 05:24 PM
Post #14
Group: Furres

Remus

I'm not fond of Petsmart to begin with, as they don't permit pit bulls and other bully breeds in their daycare and training programs. I would definitely seek action if it made your dog sick. Hope your pup is feeling better.
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super villain
post Jun 29 2009, 06:23 PM
Post #15
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super villain

I dont like petsmart cause they try to get 2 names for price of 1 and thats just bull.
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Trees
post Jun 30 2009, 07:49 PM
Post #16
Group: Furres

Trees

Billy sticks? That's very disturbing that humans lets dogs MANGLE apart the penises of bulls after they've died/been murdered for food/chopped up.
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super villain
post Jun 30 2009, 07:51 PM
Post #17
Group: Furres

super villain

Would it be less disturbing if they cut it up with a knife and fork?

You said it yourself, they were killed for FOOD.
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Remus
post Jun 30 2009, 07:53 PM
Post #18
Group: Furres

Remus

QUOTE (Trees @ Jun 30 2009, 08:49 PM) *
Billy sticks? That's very disturbing that humans lets dogs MANGLE apart the penises of bulls after they've died/been murdered for food/chopped up.


It's the same as eating the rest of the animal. Bully Sticks are a healthy treat for dogs -my two love them.
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Mredria
post Jun 30 2009, 08:00 PM
Post #19
Group: Furres

Mredria

Bully sticks are the only chewy treat I let my pup have. They're healthy, she can't get big pieces off and hurt/choke herself, and she bloody loves them.
They'd just throw them away anyway!
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Sanne
post Jul 4 2009, 05:24 PM
Post #20
Group: Furres

Sanne

Hrm. I think what really bothers me is the way it looks like a treat that it's not. It's one thing to sell a treat that's made of a certain product. It's another to make it look like a meat product, hang it next to a similar looking product and being vague about its contents, thus tricking people into thinking they're buying a bargain and feeding their dog an entirely different product.

The deception of it all is what gets me.
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