Humans?, Humans? What do you think of them being on Furcadia? Options

[Leeden]

I'd really like to know what the creators thing about humans on furcadia.

'They're not supported by the game' I've been told. But what do you think about human characters?

[Druail]

I think you should be able to buy them but be expenive as heck, like more then Dragon for life

[Req LeBeax]

no humans........ever!

[Kamose]

Are you asking about an official human avatar or just players who decide on their own to have human characters?

Human Avatars: DEP has repeatedly stated that human avatars will not be released in Furcadia. As Emerald Flame put it, "Furcadia is about animal characters." So far, DEP has only released avatars that are canon. In the Dragonlands, humans don't exist and never existed.

2. No, humans aren't a part of the Dragonlands Continuity, and never have been. It's definitely not an "uplift" background (in which humans once existed, and something happened to make various creatures into talking upright animals).
And they never did, either.

In the Dragonlands Continuity, there's Drakoria, Kasuria, and the Olde World. There is, in our default Continuity, no gateway to Earth or any other world. For game purposes, those other places never existed. In the Dragonlands, nobody knows what a 'Human' is!

I don't disagree that there are a lot of "humans" in Furcadia and I understand the desire to have an official human avatar. You should think of a few things though. One, there are how many furre and Ferian types now? They represent a huge variety in body types and looks. If we added a human avatar, all of them would look the same. We certainly wouldn't add mutiple ones as that brings us to our other main concern, which is that Furcadia is about animal characters. If we allow humans in, they could very easily overwelm the basic premise of the game. It would no longer be the same world after awhile. One of our big reasons for making and running Furcadia is to provide a neutral ground in the world where people from all over can meet peacefully. Love of our pets and animal friends is a great way to find mutual ground even amoung extremely different cultures. Animals have a more natural and innocent way of dealing with each other. Do we really want to cloud what Furcadia is by bringing in humankind?

Also, because Furcadia primarily appeals to furry fans, some people at DEP believe that there is not much demand for a human avatar. In fact, some players are so strongly anti-human that they have threatened to leave Furcadia should humans ever be added.

I typically had 30-40 players when I ran a feral dream out of AI. What's the amount of interest in RPing a human at Interdimensional RP? Zero. :sb: I conclude that most of the current players wouldn't want Furcadia to include humans as an available default species.

Out of respect for the folks who opted-in to playing Furcadia on the premise that it's definitely a "furry" world, I don't think humans should be added. And that kinda sucks for me because if they were, I think our usership would double within two years. ;)

Personally, I'd prefer not to see human avatars on main maps. I still follow the premise that Furcadia is a world of anthropomorphic animals. I like that all of the avatars we've added so far have been part of the Dragonlands, even if the main maps are OOC.


Human Characters: I don't play humans in Furcadia for the reasons stated above.

Official avatars aside, DEP has also expressed a preference for animal characters.

I'm grateful that Furcadia players tend to upload mostly furry animal portraits. Every so often, though, there are some non-furry ones. As long as they're not R-rated, we just smile, and say Thank you VERY much.

[super villain]

Humans are animals and ive seen plenty of furry people.

[Jonas Malakiahus]

My view on humans in furcadia... And I'll say up front that I have both Human, and Furre characters... I don't see a "need" for a human avatar.. it would be upsetting to those who are all for furre only... I don't try to sneak a human or human like character where the dream setting frowns on human characters.. I'm a writer, and a lot of my characters I make on Furcadia, come from my writing.. Some might say... Well just make them furry..? I say, its my character.. I like the freedom of enviroment in Furc to build your own little setting, and the collection of rpers that can be found. I'm here to tell a story, not taint someone elses fantasy world. I play humans, I tend to prefer human or human like characters (such as elves, and so forth) I have nothing at all against furres or furre characters, as I said, I have furre characters as well... Some of my characters, are just simply... not furres, and the story would work if they were.

[Emerald Flame]

Human Avatars: DEP has repeatedly stated that human avatars will not be released in Furcadia. As Emerald Flame put it, "Furcadia is about animal characters." So far, DEP has only released avatars that are canon. In the Dragonlands, humans don't exist and never existed.

Actually this isn't totally true. We have said many times that we are still undecided on human avatars. Talz feels more strongly that we shouldn't have them. Felorin and timo feel more strongly that we should. I would say I'm still pretty undecided. While i would tend to play a fae cat character always myself, I have friends who would be more comfortable in Furcadia if they had the choice of being human. I certainly have no issues with them playing human characters and it would be nice if they could on main maps. About once a year The Creators bring it up again among staff and we decide if we are going to do it this year or not.

Our players are even undecided, though they are tending towards wanting them. We asked in our yearly survey this time what our players would think if we added a human avatar. Following are the results!

54.1% Should be added as "free-to-play" avatars (i.e. felines)
7.4% Should be added as "pay-to-play" avatars (i.e. dragons)
14.1% Should only be allowed in private dreams
24.4% Should not be added at all

[Telelia]

well, your talking of humans, what about the human-ish characters like elves or vampires? don't get me wrong, i wouldn't mind humans in furcadia, just that they may be out-of-place...... unless you made a main for them. i wouldn't care if they weren't allowed on, just that it may be interesting with them

-all ways tries new things, no matter how 'uncool' they are [for lack of a better word]

[Seley]

I'm not sure what this would do to Furcadia concerning the infinitely stupid but still present "war" about furries on the internet. Currently Furcadia is something of a haven from that, as "furry-haters" can't legitimately get in-game without adopting a furry face themselves - and those flamers that do come in, don't stay long.

If they had a human avatar, would the flamers and "furry-haters" find more of an outlet to join the game and harass people who are furries? Would it become a challenge, almost, to ask players "Why are you an animal? Are you a furry? You MUST be a furry if you're playing an animal and not a human..."

On the other paw...

Would it somehow work to counteract the idea that Furcadia is ONLY for furries? I joined LONG before I knew what a "furry" even was, and several players are genuinely no part of the furry fandom, and play for the creative and roleplaying aspects of the game.

Would a human avatar open up Furcadia's doors to new players by sending the clear signal "we're not JUST a furry game, there's so much to do here!" and broaden the player-base?

As to my personal opinion, initially I'd say no, I'd rather not see a human -- but then, I thought the same thing about the wolven ferians when they first showed up, that they were annoying and distasteful.

They grew on me. The more I started seeing them integrated in-game, especially along with the other ferians, the more I liked them. Now I'm actually rather fond of ferians.

So I'll say, initially, I wouldn't be impressed, but I'd give it a chance. Certainly my gaming experience wouldn't be ruined by it and I wouldn't throw up my arms and leave Furcadia.

[Kamose]

Actually this isn't totally true. We have said many times that we are still undecided on human avatars. Talz feels more strongly that we shouldn't have them. Felorin and timo feel more strongly that we should. I would say I'm still pretty undecided. While i would tend to play a fae cat character always myself, I have friends who would be more comfortable in Furcadia if they had the choice of being human. I certainly have no issues with them playing human characters and it would be nice if they could on main maps. About once a year The Creators bring it up again among staff and we decide if we are going to do it this year or not.

Thanks for the update. I am working on an updated list of frequently suggested avatars, and I've been going from DEP comments on past threads. Talzhemir has been the most vocal, and she is pretty strongly anti-human, but there haven't been many comments on the Suggestions forum by other creators.

[Runetta Reborn]

While I think it would be funny for DEP to offer humans as "mythicals" in the digo market, I would hate to see them as a default species. I'm open to the idea of having humans but I'm leaning more to the anti-human side.

I don't want Furcadia to turn into a 2D Second Life or IMVU!

If people want to have humans in their dreams, then that's all fine and good. But having a human species would diminish what Furcadia has grown to be, I think. Within a matter of months, we'd have more humans than furres! Mark my words! There's plenty of people out there who love Furcadia's free of creativitiy (ports, dreams, ect) but stay away because they hate furries and don't wait to be in cohoots with them. Would you really, honestly want people like that on Furcadia? Even those of us, like myself, who aren't into the 'furry culture' would still be looked down upon for having an imagination and wanting to pretend.

It'd also make it easier for trolls who like to go around spamming "###### YOU FUR FAGS! YOU LIKE TO ###### ANIMALS! HURRRRRR!" to go about their trolling business. We'd see even more human/furry rivalry. And it wouldn't be settled with tug-o-war.

No humans on Furcadia!
Just think of all the idiots that would attract!

[Emerald Flame]

I don't want Furcadia to turn into a 2D Second Life or IMVU!

Those two games have been around a lot less time than Furcadia but have managed to develop much further because more people will play them. More people means more money for game development.

If people want to have humans in their dreams, then that's all fine and good. But having a human species would diminish what Furcadia has grown to be, I think. Within a matter of months, we'd have more humans than furres! Mark my words!

I don't disagree. It's probably our biggest concern.

There's plenty of people out there who love Furcadia's free of creativitiy (ports, dreams, ect) but stay away because they hate furries and don't wait to be in cohoots with them. Would you really, honestly want people like that on Furcadia? Even those of us, like myself, who aren't into the 'furry culture' would still be looked down upon for having an imagination and wanting to pretend.

I don't think feeling uncomfortable playing a furry makes you a bad person. Should we be like them and say their way of wanting to RP is wrong? Have you considered that maybe they'd learn that what they fear just isn't true? Should they not be able to use their imagination and create just because they prefer to play as a human instead of a furre?

Every other graphical furry game out there allows humans, yet most "furries" don't prefer to play Furcadia where we only allow animal avatars. Only a small percentage of our current players consider themselves in the furry fandom. In fact, many in the furry fandom talk down Furcadia and won't play. Why should we stay "loyal", and lose money for development, when the furry fandom is not "loyal" to us?

It'd also make it easier for trolls who like to go around spamming "###### YOU FUR FAGS! YOU LIKE TO ###### ANIMALS! HURRRRRR!" to go about their trolling business. We'd see even more human/furry rivalry. And it wouldn't be settled with tug-o-war.

I think this isn't true or likely to happen. The same sorts of things were said about Ferians and they didn't happen. For one, harassment and spamming will still be against the rules, just like it is now. Also, many times "furry hating" groups have tried to "attack" Furcadia and found their harassment falling flat. No one cared. If they got too bad they were ignored or a Guardians took them out of the game. Funny enough, some who initially "attacked" found they really enjoyed the game, especially the freedom we offer and stayed to play constructively. Many really misunderstand Furcadia and the furry fandom, so much so that even many Furcadians are afraid to admit they play or might be a "furry". By keeping out these "humans" and making them feel uncomfortable being in our game, are we hindering better understanding and truth? Isn't that totally against what Furcadia stands for?

Furcadia was created to help World wide peace and understanding of other cultures. We felt the animal characters gave a way for people to separate out their human sides and not worry so much about what their humans were like. Maybe they'd even be able to find common interests in their liking of cute fuzzy things. Now (13 years later), due to misunderstandings and media hype, people of the world think playing an animal character makes you weird and perverted. Perhaps it is time to change. The World, as a people, cannot grow without changing and accepting new ways and ideas and without embracing old truths. Humans in Furcadia would let us embrace both the truth of what we are and help others feel comfortable enough with Furcadia to come learn a little from us and let their imaginations soar too!

[Req LeBeax]

The human equation opens up too much mess in my opinion. I just don't want to be sitting in naia as a my tygard and some humans come by saying they was on safari. That would get annoying.

[super villain]

You do realize any other species could do the same thing, right? You dont think anyone has ever rp'd some canines going on a safari?


There is no reason to not have humans. They are animals, and its not like they are nomal humans on furcadia either, they would be humans with the ability to have 5+ diff kinds of wings, the ability to turn into a dragon. Oh and get this one, the ability to TALK to other species.

It will not be the sims, or anything else like that.

More people arent going to make fun of 'furrys' anymore than they already do. Do you really think having to be one of the regular species stops them from coming on and making fun of people? They dont care, if they want to make fun of people, they will do it no matter what. The only way it could potentially increase this, is if it makes a LOOOOT more people start playing the game. But its not like DEP isnt always trying to do that in the first place.

[Xxysthstris]

The human equation opens up too much mess in my opinion. I just don't want to be sitting in naia as a my tygard and some humans come by saying they was on safari. That would get annoying.

It would give you the perfect opportunity to leap into instinctive mode by scaling the vehicle they're in (or not in!) and eat them. Pesky tourists.

[Seley]

Those two games have been around a lot less time than Furcadia but have managed to develop much further because more people will play them. More people means more money for game development.

Yes, but please please please don't go to IMVU for ANY kind of example. Their business practices are HIGHLY unfair and potentially illegal. I spent, quite literally, WEEKS trying to get ANY kind of response from the staff for very legitimate complaints about their practices, and got resounding silence and more unfair rules and regulations pushed on me. I don't play IMVU at all anymore.

Sorry, just had to say it, I TOTALLY second the concern about Furcadia becoming ANYTHING like IMVU or Second Life (also, unimpressed).

[Emerald Flame]

Yes, but please please please don't go to IMVU for ANY kind of example. Their business practices are HIGHLY unfair and potentially illegal. I spent, quite literally, WEEKS trying to get ANY kind of response from the staff for very legitimate complaints about their practices, and got resounding silence and more unfair rules and regulations pushed on me. I don't play IMVU at all anymore.

Sorry, just had to say it, I TOTALLY second the concern about Furcadia becoming ANYTHING like IMVU or Second Life (also, unimpressed).

DEP is running Furcadia for different reasons than why Second Life and IMVU were started. We also are a different sort of people, more free thinkers, with a heck of a lot more experience at running online worlds than most people in the whole world have. We truely care about our players, the world and about the game experience. One of our current frustrations though is that Furcadia isn't growing anymore. It's much too difficult for new players who are hit with 13 years of development all at once. We continue not to have enough money to make timely changes to the game that would help fix very basic broken things like offline messages, buddy lists, better graphics, better tools, channel systems, new player tutorials, etc, etc. There's not enough customer players to support enough staff for the development.

I actually don't think we'd get hugely bigger right away if we added humans. I think we would start to grow again and that combined with the new features that growth would help us implement would help everyone a great deal. This would help ensure that Furcadia has a future and doesn't slowly die out like so very many online games have.

[Kain Ragnorok]

The only reason I'd gripe about hyoomans on Furc is that I just spent a few months making a default-looking hyooman avatar with all 5 wing types to use sort of like a default av in my dream.

[Justin StinCoy]

If I could trust the humans and non-humans could play nice with each other, I would accept an official human avatar. My reasoning is similar to Seley's.

Comparing a human avatar with Ferians? We have to pay for all Ferians, so we should have to pay for a human avatar as well. This might help with the acceptance problem and bring in more money for DEP.

As one can't start off as a human in this hypothetical future Furcadia, one must initially choose a nonhuman avatar, thereby confirming they're willing to play nicely with the nonhumans and to allow the staunch nonhumans to see them as a person. Since it's claimed that humans role players will want to be humans, they'll be willing to shell out the money to pay for a human Digo, thereby proving that human avatars will bring in more money for Furcadia.

As for fitting humans into the Dragonlands continuity, there are ways to do so without actually introducing humans (lemur shapeshifters out to spook furres, for example).

[Archimedes ta Scathach]

I am unbiased on it. So long as DEP doesn't mind me having human and humanoid characters in my dream? As long as I can patch in a human avatar localspecies? I'm happy as a clam. I would note, also, that we have both furry and humanoid races in my dream and have encountered no problems between them. They interact as anyone does, be they human or furre.

I am not a member of the furry fandom, per se, though I have developed an appreciation for anthro art and culture since discovering Furc a few years ago. And since then I have been deeply immersed in RP on Furc and enjoyed it here. I have one digo and many portspaces, as well as a SS and a Dream Package, and while I don't have much by way of funding, I do what I can for DEP given that they have given me something that I so deeply enjoy.

SL and IMVU lack the backbone of Furc: from what I have seen they're all but exclusively social rather than focused on role-playing and I agree that having non-human avatars fosters that because... it invokes the need to be something beyond yourself.

The one thing I can think of to grow DEP in terms of money and players would be to upgrade the main maps a little, show off what Furc can really do. While the canon patch has a lot of useful items in it, there are a lot that just plain pale in comparison to what players have done. Now, that said I think that the Wylde patch is absolutely beautiful and would encourage DEP to replace the canon trees and shrubbery with the Wylde's since that is so far and away better artwork than the original stuff. If you scale up the main maps some you will have people coming in and going "Wow!" Also, I believe that it wouldn't probably take too long in terms of man hours. Heck, I'd be willing to do it myself for free, if they wanted me to. It wouldn't take me much time to just tweak things a bit and give them a bit of a dust off.

That is, however, off the topic.

As was said earlier, I don't believe that any great anti-furry sentiment would appear overnight with the addition of human avatars since the number of furres already greatly outnumbers the number of those of us that play humans anyway (I play both humanoid and furre). Also, people are fundamentally animals. We have smaller teeth, smaller claws and watered-down instincts, but we are animals in our own right. I know that there are people here that are so biased against humans that they cannot understand why anyone would ever want to play one and there are, of course, those that are the reverse. Both camps are equally bad in my opinion because neither possesses the open-mindedness to accept that there is, in fact, a middle road.