Male/ Female Special Avatars, Another thought Options

[rainytown]

This topic has been brought up many times, but a slightly different idea came to mind, and I'm not sure if it has been suggested in the past.

Many of us still long for different male and female avatars.. and been told that it's not something Furcadia is planning to do.. at least for now. Well, what if the avatars for a specific gender can be bought at Digo Market instead of just an option to choose like the species are.

The unspecific one could stay the default one just like it is now, and whoever wishes to obtain their gender form could buy it as an add-on.. just like wings, draggies and phoes, but not pricey

Well.. just a thought..  I know I would buy that feature if it was provided

[Nikolas Payne]

DEP does not wish to do gender-specific avatars because it would take too much effort for a job they consider unimportant. Making it a pay-to-use feature doesn't really change this.

[Valkaria]

So, rather than having the masses harassed for looking a certain gender, you only want a select few to pay to be harassed for looking a certain gender.  Yeah...

[rainytown]

Yeah that's exactly what I want.. in fact.. I only posted this in order to infest  the minds so they'd fall into my evil plot

Not! :\ You get harrassed like that when you ask for it. *shrugs*

This was an idea.. just a thought.. I know I would love for it to happen and would get it myself.

[Vlin]

Well, that still would bring along the problem that it most definatly raise the download size (without altering the way things are done).

Instead, a -REASONABLE- answer would be adding a function to Furcadia so that UPLOADED dreams could patch them all they want.  Like another window that says:

Make male avatars use _ Patch.  (They're in a different FSH file, ya know)
Make Classic Winged Male Avatars use Patch.
etc etc.  (If someone didn't pick a patch, it would default to whichever it would normally use)

That way, furres (in their dreams) could have male/female avatars, and not completely affect the download size, because Furcadia wouldn't have to actually -MAKE- these patches, only add the support -FOR- them ^.~

I am on a ROLL!

^.~Vlin

[Leticia]

Expand on that idea a little...

I've been wishing for a long time that DEP would add the ability to increase avatar count in your own dream - to create avatars just for female canines, one just for certain people, etc.  You could create an attiring room, where you could step onto different squares to change avatars until you found the one that best fits your character... then enter the dream IC.

This would mean dreams that, say, want to add Cat-taurs wouldn't have to make all innocent mustelines entering the dream abruptly morph.

And it'd mean that dreams that want to have female and male avatars could.

Then you could do something like this...
(Probably going to want to check species, too, but heck...)
(0:9) When a furre enters the dream
 (1:#) and they're female
   (5:#) Change their avatar to the one in avatar patch x.
(0:9) When a furre enters the dream
 (1:#) and they're male
   (5:#) Change their avatar to the one in avatar patch x.

Type of thing.

One of the main reasons DEP -hasn't- done gender specific avatars is to reduce harrassment.  This would allow them in private dreams - but that makes it the dream owners job to police the harrasment, not DEPs.

Biggest downfall would be the increase in patch size for dreams with lots of options.  A single avatar patch (like the rabbit fsh) seems to be something right around or under 80k on the hard drive.

Add ...what, six species that come in four varieties EACH of winged or unwingedness, 24... And then dragons and pheonixi and soon, Gryphons...  27 species.  *2 genders, * 80Kb.  Looking at 4320 kb - about 4M, -unencrypted-, just for avatars.  And that's if you're ONLY patching existing species.

BTW, the same holds true even if Furc adds female and male avatars - that's another 4megs on the download.  A lot of people who play Furc, myself included, still have crappy connections, and that's an hour's downloading there, unless I'm lucky.  (No, my connection wouldn't be QUITE that bad, but I share it with four other people.)

Where this would be REALLY useful is just if you wanted to add a single species to your dream - because, after all, that's NOT much, just 80k.  Even I can get that reasonably fast.

[Cassiel]

I just wanted to make this simple comment:
People throw a fit after almost every pay item DEP creates is introduced.  If DEP came out with paid gender avatars, people would just send up a huge outcry about DEP becoming pay-to-play because they have the RIGHT to look like their correct gender and shouldn't have to pay.  By the line of thinking we usually see, they'll assume that after making you pay to play your own gender the next logical step is to make you pay to play the game.

I know, it's annoying and not too smart, but that's the comments you'll be hearing if something like that is passed.

I do like Leticia's idea.

[Daiktana]

I seem to remember a reply from one of the DEP heads stating that the reason they weren't planning to make gender specific avatars was that there is a certain atmosphere that results when you have females and males.  Mainly one in that females are looked down upon and abused.  I thought hard about this and I'm forced to agree.

When you give someone the ability to make gender specific avatars sooner or later you are going to get the Lara Croft type body frame.  At that point I shudder to think of the calls the guardians will receive about harassment of these new found supermodel avatars.  It seems to be something in the genome of the species MALEus JERKus that causes him to feel the need to go psycho at the first instance of a bump on the female chest.

I hate to say it but no matter how much I may like gender specific avatars I think we'll have to make the sacrifice NOT to have the abuse that will inevitably come with them.

Daiktana

[Inhandra]

I like the DS idea.  Makes dreams completely customizable for gender-specifc avatars.  This way patchers can get the result they want while the rest of Furcadia remains unisex.

[Vlin]

Thats just it.  the General Public wouldn't be forced to see these Lara Croft supermodel s***s.  Only in a personal dream would there be gender-specific avatars.  So, harrassment would be out of Guardians and DEPs control  (of course, unless rape was involved, then I don't think it matters where you are).

^.~Vlin

[Inhandra]

So what do we do to get Felorin to code in this special DS?

[Syk]

Here's the problem: Nobody's thinking about that little genderless species, which people could use if they dont want to be male/female. We shouldn't have to pay for two genders. I go with Multi-Gendered avatars. I think it's a good idea, and besides, people have longed for multi-species for quite a while, me being one of them.  

[Ares Dauphin]

I miss the days when people though just the plain old classic wings were neat. Heh, ah well. I guess it's true... the more you give, the more they want. =P *Snickers*

Ares.

[Aeronyth]

Maybe this can answer your questions.

34. "Could you add male and female walking shapes?"
--I'm sorry, but no. This question isn't as simple as it sounds. Early on, Furcadia's predecessor DragonSpires had both genders. As a direct result of this, the atmosphere was different. Amongst the major problems was abusive behavior towards females and strong adult language that the filters could not prevent.

The need for Owsla [Guardians] would have been much higher and I was never in favor of having the game be forever patrolled by "babysitters". I was faced with a VERY hard decision here: to risk my livelihood by taking the chance that we'd have a game that we would have to ban anybody under 18, or to make a game that I felt confident even 10 year olds could have a good time playing!!!

I knew there would be time for four or five shapes. We could have males and females but we'd have to have limited it to canines and mustelines. Or I could dump the females and have canines, mustelines, equines, and rodents. I opted for having no genders, and twice as many shapes. Unless we're charging for it, I'm inclined to add 1 new Types, not an extra version of an existing ones. Having to have three winged versions already makes adding one new type a huge chore.

If we were to go over to having females now, it would cost as much time as it takes to modify 400 frames of animation. Even if there was time to add the second genders, the size of the download is still a MAJOR limiting factor for Furcadia, and it still is. Furcadia's market includes people with slow connections, who can't play real-time action games and often can't afford a game that charges a monthly fee. It also includes people who have slow connections because they live overseas.

Every byte added to our download increases the chance of a disconnect during download. If that happens, they may try again. But they're very very likely to say, "Heck with this-- I'm playing NeoPets!" and then we've lost a potential Furre. Our download size is already severely pushing the limits.

I *do* agree with everybody who says, it would be nice to have female figures. I'm still open to that possibility. But something would have to change that counteracts the abusive atmosphere problem in a way that doesn't depend on us having to police the game more.

Another (less significant) problem is that, in the year 2001, wearing skirts is subtly associated with a menial position, more and more. Waitresses, female secretaries, female nurses, female receptionists, cheerleaders who are there to lead the worship of male athletes, stereotypically all wear skirts. In modern times, women don't all have long hair, they don't all have big Lara Croft sized breasts, and they don't all wear skirts. Maybe it's just as well that Furcadia's avatars are unisex for now.

Taken from Talzhemir's FAQ

[Aeronyth]

Maybe this can answer your questions.

34. "Could you add male and female walking shapes?"
--I'm sorry, but no. This question isn't as simple as it sounds. Early on, Furcadia's predecessor DragonSpires had both genders. As a direct result of this, the atmosphere was different. Amongst the major problems was abusive behavior towards females and strong adult language that the filters could not prevent.

The need for Owsla [Guardians] would have been much higher and I was never in favor of having the game be forever patrolled by "babysitters". I was faced with a VERY hard decision here: to risk my livelihood by taking the chance that we'd have a game that we would have to ban anybody under 18, or to make a game that I felt confident even 10 year olds could have a good time playing!!!

I knew there would be time for four or five shapes. We could have males and females but we'd have to have limited it to canines and mustelines. Or I could dump the females and have canines, mustelines, equines, and rodents. I opted for having no genders, and twice as many shapes. Unless we're charging for it, I'm inclined to add 1 new Types, not an extra version of an existing ones. Having to have three winged versions already makes adding one new type a huge chore.

If we were to go over to having females now, it would cost as much time as it takes to modify 400 frames of animation. Even if there was time to add the second genders, the size of the download is still a MAJOR limiting factor for Furcadia, and it still is. Furcadia's market includes people with slow connections, who can't play real-time action games and often can't afford a game that charges a monthly fee. It also includes people who have slow connections because they live overseas.

Every byte added to our download increases the chance of a disconnect during download. If that happens, they may try again. But they're very very likely to say, "Heck with this-- I'm playing NeoPets!" and then we've lost a potential Furre. Our download size is already severely pushing the limits.

I *do* agree with everybody who says, it would be nice to have female figures. I'm still open to that possibility. But something would have to change that counteracts the abusive atmosphere problem in a way that doesn't depend on us having to police the game more.

Another (less significant) problem is that, in the year 2001, wearing skirts is subtly associated with a menial position, more and more. Waitresses, female secretaries, female nurses, female receptionists, cheerleaders who are there to lead the worship of male athletes, stereotypically all wear skirts. In modern times, women don't all have long hair, they don't all have big Lara Croft sized breasts, and they don't all wear skirts. Maybe it's just as well that Furcadia's avatars are unisex for now.

Taken from Talzhemir's FAQ

[Inhandra]

See, that article only helps the DS issue.  Why?

1. In-dream gender avatar DS would not affect main maps, which would continue to allow the main maps to be unisex.

2. In-dream gender avatar DS would not influence guardians, because in-dream matters are handled specifically by the owner/shared.

3. And in response to Syk, you could easily do two negatives to check against the person being either gender to display yet another "custom" gender.  Or just have a third DS line for when they are "genderless."

[Youlanda]

Custom gender... Vlady?

Mmm.. I had a write up on a pondering that would decrease download time of furc by making wings modular and only having the wingless player.fshes... and tacking stuff on manually. But It's not on my website.. you can find it on numerious previous gender avatar related thinngies.

[duran the wanderer]

the way i read this thread it seems that what is asked for isnt the support for gender in the main dreams, hell you may not even need to pack gender spesific graphics with the client.

what is asked for is for the ability to add custom avatars without having to replace the avatars allready there, maybe even have the avatars change depending on the gender selected on your picture.

its all up to the dream to use this support and may lead to crasy growth of these dreams but then again the user have an option to go to those dreams.

and if you want to change avatar inside the dream then you either use some soft od DS to chenge it tru triggers in the map or some other way, this change will not be saved to your ini file for later refrence so if you leave the dream then you have to go back to being what you have set in the ini and will have to change manually again when entering the dream (maybe its saved with the dream  chache and not in the ini to make it apply to the dream and at the same time saved).

to change colors you still have to pay or reconnect, and the avatar change only effect the dream your in so i dont see it as a thing to just brush aside as its basicly code and will not effect the size of the client download at all, but the dreams that are allready graphics heavy may grow some more but people to go there are allready used to the downloads i guess...

[Heroh Ti'Mouse]

One of the main reasons DEP -hasn't- done gender specific avatars is to reduce harrassment.

I did read Felorin's quote about how the DragonSpires' atmosphere was different and abuse was rampant.
While I can see how this might be so, I find it silly to think that an avatar can make such a big difference when all you have to do is click on a furre to get a sexual overtone-laden desc; handcuffs, slavery and female subjugation included.

If the desc's are allowed...why not the avatar? Same poop, different pile.


Heroh

[Inhandra]

If the desc's are allowed...why not the avatar? Same poop, different pile.

ROTFLOL!  That's a new one!

But yes, I do agree with this statement.  A lot of things are allowed in descriptions that shouldn't be.  But at least I can say that a lot of it IS kept in FurN, which is good.

I'm uncertain how MAIN map gender-specific avatars would affect the community.  The way I see it is, if they were going to be sexist and hurtful, it would have already happened by now for the simple fact that you CAN determine a gender.  You see someone, you click them.  You see gender-specific portrait and description (sometimes describing revealing attire or rather crude things)...  You're going to get a reaction.

As long as the female ones aren't big-chested an dwearing miniskirts I don't think there would be a problem.  And to be honest, if I had a female avatar, I would rather it wear pants than a skirt.

Can anyone tell me why the canines show their mid-drift?  O_o