Discussion: Giving Tree Etiquette, Split From "The Giving Tree" Options

[Seley]

(Should we be careful here about "passing on" gifts? I can't shake the feeling that accepting one part of a gift and "passing" on another is a little... rude. Suppose someone offers a piece of artwork, and it's "passed over" for several posts while other gifts are being accepted. The person offering the artwork might start to feel a little bad that nobody wants their gift...

I realize I'm somewhat guilty of this, but I wonder, do the rules of this thread have a provision for this? I was hesitant about posting mine, but I was accepting nothing at all and only giving. Should it be allowed to "add" to gifts if you're accepting no part of the previous one? Maybe "adding" not allowed at all? Or is it alright the way it's going now and I'm just over-reacting?

My word sure as heck isn't law, so please don't think this is an 'official' new rule - more a question of, what does everyfurre think of this? This is an awesome thread, I'd hate to see anyfurre get their feelings hurt, and I'm afraid I see a potential for that here...)

[Tachs]

(I think adding should be perfectly fine. Picking at and passing shouldn't. Take it all or add to it, in my opinion.)

[Chii Hirobu]

Was not my intention to hurt anyone’s feelings. I simply looked at it like it would be pointless to take a nice desc from someone that might really want it and need it though I would love the cookies my main goal was to get the little kiwi for a friend of mine as it was odd cause we where rping and she was using the phoenix to represent a tiny one inch bird and so I said to her you need a kiwi. As I am waiting for her to post I see it listed on the giving tree and me not having posted in some time decided take one penny from the tray and leave a little something in replace and leave it for the next. The whole point of what I did was not to be greedy as it was not that I was keeping anything for myself. )

[Raiz]

(This post does not count for a gift)

People. This thread is about giving. Not requesting. Keep that in mind. It's the thought that matters, really. Not the value of quainity of said gift. =)

[~Virus Queen~]

(Dosen't Count. I'm just saying something.)

Sorry. This was the first time i saw this thread. I better know that i can't post things when my internet is on the verge of disconnecting and i can't edit them. ><;

[IPGD]

Anyone else think that including cookies as an allowed gift sort of defeats the purpose of this thread, considering people continuously use them as an excuse to take something but give nothing of value?

Next poster gets a cookie.

[Runetta Reborn]

Anyone else think that including cookies as an allowed gift sort of defeats the purpose of this thread, considering people continuously use them as an excuse to take something but give nothing of value?

But if people weren't generous enough to give out larger things for smaller gift, this might as well be "The Cookies and Copper Scales Tree"

[IPGD]

Some people literally have nothing else, but it makes them feel good to give.
And there is NOTHING wrong with that, nor does it feat any purposes. This isn't the digo collecting tree, this is from the heart. Materialistic people should stay away, because if you're in this for your own gain, then that's poor of you.

With that said, the next poster gets a complete remap portrait by me. Whisper me in game your details<3

There's no problem with giving cookies in itself, it just seems a little... I dunno, cheap to reply to something like a life digo offer with a cookie. Even something like an mspaint mouse drawing would be nice; it doesn't have to be good, just involve some level of effort that shows you actually want to give something nice away, not just collect free digoes. You can easily hand out cookies randomly on the main maps if you wanted to.

[#Sa]

There's no problem with giving cookies in itself, it just seems a little... I dunno, cheap to reply to something like a life digo offer with a cookie. Even something like an mspaint mouse drawing would be nice; it doesn't have to be good, just involve some level of effort that shows you actually want to give something nice away, not just collect free digoes. You can easily hand out cookies randomly on the main maps if you wanted to.

It'll never be about the size of the gift, but the warmth and happiness it brings, and if a "simple cookie" can do that, then the point of this thread has been met and then some. Some people do NOT have life digos, some do. Also, some people can't draw. That's their or prerogative and isn't for anyone else to judge, no matter who you are. The effort comes from the heart, not from the size of a gift. Remember that.

To me, this thread isn't about collecting digos, or items, or for being materialistic, but rather bringing people of the community, new and old, together. And like I said, if a simple copper scale or cookie has done this, then the point and goal of this thread has been met and then some.
A reply will not be given if a negative or even a positive reply is received because everything that needed to be said was. Should you want to continue this, whisper me in-game.
Thank-you.

[IPGD]

It'll never be about the size of the gift, but the warmth and happiness it brings, and if a "simple cookie" can do that, then the point of this thread has been met and then some. Some people do NOT have life digos, some do. Also, some people can't draw. That's their or prerogative and isn't for anyone else to judge, no matter who you are. The effort comes from the heart, not from the size of a gift. Remember that.

To me, this thread isn't about collecting digos, or items, or for being materialistic, but rather bringing people of the community, new and old, together. And like I said, if a simple copper scale or cookie has done this, then the point and goal of this thread has been met and then some.
A reply will not be given if a negative or even a positive reply is received because everything that needed to be said was. Should you want to continue this, whisper me in-game.
Thank-you.

I have no desire to argue with you specifically, just start a little discussion (which should probably be moved off thread in retrospect...). I agree, the gift can be small, but cookies are literally the most useless item you could possibly give. They have neither meaning nor value. A horrible mspaint doodle from someone who's never drawn before has more meaning than a cookie. A single copper dragonscale has more value than a cookie. I have no problem with people who want to give cookies because it makes them feel good, but a good deal of the time it's obviously not being used that way; a lot of people come here with the sole intention of getting free digoes and giving nothing of meaning or value back. This isn't about me wanting more opportunities for free loot, but I believe this thread was supposed to be more about giving than taking; cookies enable people to do nothing but the latter.

[Shinnamonu]

Anyone else think that including cookies as an allowed gift sort of defeats the purpose of this thread, considering people continuously use them as an excuse to take something but give nothing of value?

I just wanted to say, in IPGD's defense, that I absolutely agree with every single thing that she has said so far.

Especially when you have the same three or four people continuously snagging all the Digos, and giving back a cookie in return just about every time. If they aren't seemingly in it for the greed, then who is?

I have no problem with people who want to give cookies because it makes them feel good, but a good deal of the time it's obviously not being used that way; a lot of people come here with the sole intention of getting free digoes and giving nothing of meaning or value back.

QFT.

I know that most people in this thread come in with good intentions. They don't care who the gift goes out to or what someone else will give in return as long as the chain keeps going on...

But it is a little frustrating seeing people, who watch this thread like a hawk, swoop in and take the gift (almost usually a Digo, maybe less free art), and they walk away with a year Furling or something and the next person gets a measly cookie that rots in less than 24 hours, and you know darn-well they only gave out the cookie just so they could take the Digo and keep going. I agree with IGPD 1000%. Draw a picture even if you don't think you're that good. It's the thought that counts. Write the person a poem. Make them a quick dream or something, shoot. There's tons of stuff you can do. Again, I don't care if you're genuine, but you know that a lot of these people aren't, explaining their quick cookie-drop-and-leave.

It is a little disheartening seeing three or four pages of cookie-swapping (or even worse, the thread just dies for several days all together) until the next person decides to put up a Digo, in which people run all over it, take the free gift proudly, and only give out a cookie again. It is obvious this is not what this thread is about.

[Kamose]

I agree with what IPGD and Shinnamonu said.

This thread is a very nice idea, and there have been several generous players. Unfortunately, threads like this will always attract a few people who are more interested in receiving than giving.

A gift that requires some effort would be much more meaningful than cookies, which the game gives to every character for free. There are many things you can do if you don't have or want to give away Digos. Drawing, dreamweaving, and writing are just a few examples of gifts that don't cost the giver anything out-of-pocket.

Yes, this thread is about giving, and sometimes, it's the thought that counts. But how much thought or effort goes into cookies? When someone claims a life Dragon and offers only 5 cookies -- and ignores the poster's request that the Dragon go to someone without Digos -- it makes me question the goodwill of some cookie givers.

[Xxysthstris]

It is to be expected it though, not expecting it will result in your grinding yourselves up over it.

If you're annoyed by it so much you can either not bother with the thread (which I'm about to do due to the lack of "thank you!"s and general politeness coming from a number of recipients); or start a new thread aimed at those who are capable and willing to give up their time, energy and/or money in order to keep the thread going.
Alternatively: it might be best to just not offer anything resulting in your needing to spend directly by instead offering free but useful items (such as art).

Easy.

[Raiz]

While the deed was very selfish, but when things are just handed out like this, expect people to be greedy. That is the way of the human.

[Heavens cat]

As the furre who actually did donate that dragon to [Name], I feel I should take the time to share a few thoughts and clear up a few things, especially now that [Name] has been revealed as having taken a somewhat dishonest course.

I had decided, even before posting on the Giving Tree topic, that I did not want to own the dragon. In a sense, I'm a very weird individual who is anti-digo, at least as far as owning and wearing them. I support those who spend their money to purchase digos and financially support Furcadia, and occasionally I purchase digos for this reason, but on a personal level I do not want to own them or wear them unless they were given to me - for, in that case, it means I am important to the benefactor. I won't ramble any more on this preference of mine because it's beyond the point I want to make.

While I wanted to get rid of the dragon, I did not feel comfortable with asking for money in exchange. This left the option of donating it. I donated another life digo to a friend of mine, and I wanted the dragon to bring happiness to an anonymous player. My idea was that the most happiness could be squeezed out of the silly digo if it went to someone who had never had a digo before, potentially for financial reasons.

The point I want to emphasize is that this dragon was meant to inspire happiness - not to result in the shaming of anybody. Consider this point: [Name] to want the dragon so badly that they would take the effort to deceive me and log onto the alt [Name] on a nearly daily basis over the period of three weeks (the amount of time before I could actually transfer ownership of the dragon to them) means that they really wanted that digo. And if they really wanted it, that must mean it made them happy to receive it.

Now, I don't agree with the means they used to receive the digo. I would have prefered honesty on their part. However, the bottom line is that I didn't lose anything out of transfering the dragon, because I didn't want it, and in the end it made [Name] happy, which means the digo served its purpose. If negative feelings are targeted at [Name] because of this whole ordeal, it may somehow make them unhappy, and the very purpose of the digo donation will be void. Isn't it the point of the Giving Tree to make somebody's day?

In an unorthodox way, the dragon did serve its purpose. To dwell on it any longer will only threaten to remove or degrade its accomplishment. Let it be.

I know that was kind of long, but thanks for reading!

[Empty Box]

As a further point, one of the forum rules states:

"Please refrain from using alternate identities ("alts") to respond to your own posts or to "play mindgames"."

Surely using alts in the Giving Tree thread is a breech of this rule, even worse than using alts to support your own opinions because it has financial implications.

The point I want to emphasize is that this dragon was meant to inspire happiness - not to result in the shaming of anybody. Consider this point: [Name] to want the dragon so badly that they would take the effort to deceive me and log onto the alt [Name] on a nearly daily basis over the period of three weeks (the amount of time before I could actually transfer ownership of the dragon to them) means that they really wanted that digo. And if they really wanted it, that must mean it made them happy to receive it.

Heavens cat, you have certainly taken this very gracefully, and it's a credit to you. But, I don't share your sentiments here. If someone wants $10,000 so very badly that they go to the effort of robbing a bank or committing fraud, does that make their crime less egregious? What if the money makes them really happy? It's the principle of the thing.

[Heavens cat]

Heavens cat, you have certainly taken this very gracefully, and it's a credit to you. But, I don't share your sentiments here. If someone wants $10,000 so very badly that they go to the effort of robbing a bank or committing fraud, does that make their crime less egregious? What if the money makes them really happy? It's the principle of the thing.

Mm... I kind of want to avoid getting into an ethical correspondence, because I don't consider myself ethical enough to exchange reasonably, but I think there's a bit of a difference in the cases of donating a dragon and robbing a bank that makes so that the principle can't be taken as synonymous.

Admittedly, both cases involve dishonesty, but there's a difference, and I'm not only referring to the magnitude of the dishonesty. Somebody who places their money in the bank doesn't intend for it to be taken away - the purpose of it is to... I don't know, I'm pretty economically ignorant... keep the money safe and intend to have their earnings grow, let's say. If someone was to rob the money from a bank, of course the act wouldn't be dignified if it made the thieves happy, because the money wasn't placed in the bank to make thieves happy to begin with.

In the case of the dragon, the very purpose of my wanting to donate it was to make somebody happy. Yes, there was dishonesty involved in the long run, but that dishonesty (despite a common understanding that it was wrong) did not take away from the intention of the case being studied. The person became happy in the end, and that was my intention.

Now, one could get into the long, drawn-out debate of whether or not material actually makes one happy, but - unless someone makes a claim who really piques my interest - I won't reply more than I already have in this second post. It's nothing personal, I would just rather not get into any more conversation on this topic than I already have.

Have a good night!

[Xxysthstris]

I don't think mods should be allowed to reveal alts on the forum

I think it's perfectly acceptable when you account for what it can prevent or enlighten towards. Though I also think it's unacceptable to switch alts in order to gain an advantage in something, or have increase bias towards something.

It's a person's own undoing if they want to expose themselves for being a fraud, a hack and a leech.

[Spasebo]

would it also be allowable for people to demand that, to accept their gift, you must offer something of more worth than a cookie? Or maybe to ask, 'please give something away that you haven't given away before in this thread'. I don't know, it's a thought.

[Kamose]

I have reconsidered the issue and removed all references to the name of the player that was involved. To those of you who have already read the details: please do not repost the name.

I stand by my original position that using alts in this manner is a violation of forum rules. (I have seen a few other threads in which DEP staff members disclosed when people were deceptively using alts to support their own arguments.) However, given the amount of time that has passed and that the giver does not want to rescind the gift, I don't think it is necessary to have any specific names involved.

On a more positive note, Heavens cat deserves praise for the mature and generous way in which she has responded to this situation.