Avians And Wyrmmes? Options

[Sylu]

This was posted in the Pillowen topic, before it was locked.

I don't think there will ever be an non-winged anthro bird. Birds are "lesser" creatures that we eat in the Furcadia Mythos. Usually anthros follow that mythos closely.

The problem with this is that 99% of Furcadia doesn't play by the Furcadia Mythos and simply use Furcadia to roleplay in their own continuities, or as a social game. When people play a socializing game or roleplay, they like to have an avatar that best depicts the character they want to be portrayed as. I imagine there are a lot of people who would like to be depicted by an anthro avian or lizard avatar, but the current ones are far too large or don't quite depict a general enough example of the species. Dragons are gigantic and winged, phoenixes and gryffes are likewise towering and don't mesh with the rest of the avatars on screen.

As for the wings, it's still possible to make a winged anthro bird if you design something like this, where the wings are the arms: http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/SoniTwe.../ComiXmas03.JPG

It seems like avatars should be designed based around what will bring in money or what will bring in players, not what necessarily fits with a lore - within reason. Avians and lizards are heavily centered in furry communities, so it's really confusing that they're excluded beyond large digos. At the very least you could possibly start with a 'Noble Lizard' and a 'Noble Avian' on scale with the other nobles to sell and see how those go? That's the treatment humans got and it seems to have worked out fine, at least according to the lengthy human lifer list.

[Telelia]

I love that picture you linked- and to me certain birds are never prey to begin with. I mean yeah a dove or quail would be food but I doubt eagles and falcons would be eaten.
I like this idea

[Galaxy Lounge]

Plus, they've broken the mythos following before. I remember a time when the creators of the game swore up and down that they'd never, EVER, add humans because they don't follow continuity.
....
I don't think I need to say much more than that.

[Kamose]

to me certain birds are never prey to begin with. I mean yeah a dove or quail would be food but I doubt eagles and falcons would be eaten.

Historically, most of DEP's anthro avatars have drawn from Furcadia canon. The issue with birds (and reptiles for that matter) is not that they're all prey but that in the Dragonlands, "birds, insects, and reptiles occupy the position of the lower animals in Furcadia." For the most part, these animals are not sentient beings.

That being said, DEP has been willing to alter or expand canon in the past to accommodate new avatars, such as Hyoomans and Ferians. In 2007, Talzhemir even discussed plans for a free "Byrdde" avatar that would be a lost race from a primordial part of Drakoria.

I would like to see more non-mammalian anthros, but DEP's resources are limited, and I'm not sure how much it is willing to devote to something that represents a relatively small part of the fandom.

The Original 5 were based on some sort of Survey waaay back when(Think it was on FurryMUCK). The 5 Original Furcadia species were the ones that players picked the most. (lumping wolves, foxes and poodles into canines, and tigers, leopards and other kitties into felines etc.)

So yes, each new avatar is apt to appeal to less and elss of Furcadia's population as we go along. But what's going on here is a filling in of the cracks, giving new options to people who really can't find an equivelent in any of the other species.

[Conceited]

I agree that they should put in anthro birds and lizards. As others have already said, most people on Furc don't follow the Furcadia canon at all. And even so, it's been broken before. Birds and lizards both are things that tons of people would love to see, and they could bring in quite a lot of money for DEP. Even better than the money, though, it's what the players want. It's things that have been getting requested for years. Yes, it's their game, and they decide what to do with it. But if they decide to ignore what their players have been asking for for years.. That just reflects badly on them.

[Telelia]

I'm not sure if its ignoring, but more of what is on the plate- for one ever since the economy crashed Furc has been... slow? It wasn't what it was, people realize this. For one they promised the 32 bit update which I know will take a crap ton of time, all the while they commit resources to do the fun events like festivals and the competition which takes up the time away from the update and whatever other things they plan on doing.

I honestly think if the economy hadn't tanked we'd of seen more change in the game itself.

[Targath]

Until DEP does consider adding in Byrrdes or Lizards, you may want to include Vai's Avian and Lizard avatars in your dreams. I think the work on those two are pretty good. I also believe that there was an updated set under the name "Amazing Anthros" if you can find it.

[Rated X]

I agree that they should put in anthro birds and lizards. As others have already said, most people on Furc don't follow the Furcadia canon at all. And even so, it's been broken before. Birds and lizards both are things that tons of people would love to see, and they could bring in quite a lot of money for DEP. Even better than the money, though, it's what the players want. It's things that have been getting requested for years. Yes, it's their game, and they decide what to do with it. But if they decide to ignore what their players have been asking for for years.. That just reflects badly on them.

Hit the nail on the head.

[Cynthia Nott]

Psssssssst...

Mythic or not isn't the phoenix an anthro avian?

Ok so it's not perfect, but there are loads of players out there who play species that aren't included in the game- they just have locals in their own dreams, or use their description to show what they are. Having a walking anthro avian would look nice for you, but - and i've made this point before- how you look really doesn't make any difference to the actual game play. You could look like a walking blob and still be able to do exactly the same thing!

However I do agree that saying avians won't be included because of canon is kinda silly these days because one the hyoomans are here now, two kiwis are avatars now and basically walking food, and three we have lots of cute avatars like the toasterwing that doesn't fit at all! I personally think it won't happen because the staff don't have time to make it.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, I just don't think it's a necessary use of time at the moment. Same with lizards and reptiles- use a naga, dragon or an orchiwhatsit.

Compromise.

Buy a phoenix in the meantime, and hope the staff have time (unlikely) to comply with your wishes. Or don't. It's up to you.

[Degu]

DEP and it's volunteers do have an awful lot on their plate right now with the next update and Gar preoccupied with his new job. I'm not sure cannon story line always comes into Furcadia's decisions when creating Digo's these days because while the game has it's own story, i like to think it's about limitless creativity, but that's just my uneducated opinion, maybe they do prefer to follow their own story line so don't quote me on that! ;P

If there's something you want to see you just need to discuss it (minus negative comments) on the Forums and see if other people agree with you, the more backing you get from others who play the game the more it's going to seem like a good idea and be considered in the future when they're considering adding new items.

[Emerald Flame]

I also think people should go read the entirety of what I said rather than the small bit of it that was quoted out of context here. Funny how people like to do that and then proceed to extrapolate and complain afterwards. Reminds me of Fox News.

[Trance]

Not to be rude or anything and I feel kind of awkward for saying so, but I never really knew that Furc had its own storyline... Or that it wouldn't allow anthro avians/lizards/etc because uh, that's all I rp. xD;

[wissenschaft]

I also think people should go read the entirety of what I said rather than the small bit of it that was quoted out of context here. Funny how people like to do that and then proceed to extrapolate and complain afterwards. Reminds me of Fox News.

Paying attention to the details of someone's speech is more important that having the whole thing go in one ear and out the other. In other words, instead of people ignoring such details, maybe the someone people are listening to should be more careful with their details on such subjects.

Otherwise, I also don't recall anyone who ever followed Furcadia's canons, and personally I've never met anyone who even knew Furcadia had a "story". But aren't having your own species of lizards and other requested digos (that may never come to market) what dreams are for?

[Cynthia Nott]

Otherwise, I also don't recall anyone who ever followed Furcadia's canons, and personally I've never met anyone who even knew Furcadia had a "story". But aren't having your own species of lizards and other requested digos (that may never come to market) what dreams are for?

I actually am really sad I missed the days when Furc had loads of canon stuff going on, cos it seems like it would have been really groovy! To clarify the point I was trying to make earlier (cos I'm not sure it came across the right way *derp*), saying DEP doesn't release things because of canon is silly; the quote from EF was obviously taken out of context because we have the toasterwing and pillowen, both of which I believe were largely her doing

I agree with Wissenschaft here - put them in dreams if you want them!

Again though... the phoenix is a freaking huge anthropormorphic birdy thingy- how can you possibly claim DEP are not providing you with an anthropormorphic avian to buy?

You could always use the gryffe as well, since, you know... another big birdy (liony) thingy

Dragons, Nagas, Orchimodos... all possible reptile digos...

C-O-M-P-R-O-M-I-S-E.

[Sylu]

I also think people should go read the entirety of what I said rather than the small bit of it that was quoted out of context here. Funny how people like to do that and then proceed to extrapolate and complain afterwards. Reminds me of Fox News.

I just quoted what seemed like the immediately important bit.

I don't think there will ever be an non-winged anthro bird. Birds are "lesser" creatures that we eat in the Furcadia Mythos. Usually anthros follow that mythos closely. That is also why there haven't been anthro lizards, since those would be Wyrmmes. The decision has never been made to put those in. Though I think they are not out of the question. Our system doesn't support adding them well either. Seasonals and Ferians not only sell better than anthros by about 8-1, they are meant to be outside the mythos for the most part.

That Furcadia wants to follow the mythos, which is why it's unlikely that (anthro / noble) avians or lizards will be added. I didn't see how anything that followed it modified that in any drastic way. What was the part that would change the conversation drastically? That seasons and ferians sell better by 8-1?

It doesn't surprise me that they sell better, considering that they cost a lot less, meaning that they're easier impulse buys and even moreso whenever they go on sale. The only 8-to-1 example I can find is looking at the Noble Musteline For Life which sold extremely poorly, but I've almost never saw any musteline players on Furcadia in my history of playing, so that isn't very surprising either. I've seen more people playing green canines as lizards than I ever have mustelines, come to think of it.

It would be pretty nice if someday Furcadia had some sort of pick-all-that-apply (or pick-3) poll to query what sort of characters players most play to figure out the exact demographics of species for better targeting of future digos. Something like:

CODE

[x] Feline [ ] Canine [ ] Equine [ ] Musteline [ ] Bugge
[ ] Bird / Avian [ ] Lizard / Wyrmme [ ] Dragon [x] Human [ ] Elf
[ ] Dwarf [ ] Drow [ ] Fairy [ ] Ferian Dog [ ] Ferian Cat
[ ] Ferian Horse [ ] Ferian Puppies [ ] Ferian Kittens [ ] Human children [x] Mermaids / Merfurs

And so on, and so on.

[Emerald Flame]

Not to be rude or anything and I feel kind of awkward for saying so, but I never really knew that Furc had its own storyline... Or that it wouldn't allow anthro avians/lizards/etc because uh, that's all I rp. xD;

Furcadia is about being what you want to be and doing what you want to do. Furcadia is really what you make of it, which is why we give you your own area. I don't mind at all what you play and I think lizards and birds are cool!

I don't make the decisions about the official storyline. That has always been and always will be Talzhemir's area. I don't add new Anthros because of the storyline though. Maybe that will change in the future, but I'm not the one to change it!

[Den]

I'm just curious - why does it usually seem like someone gets snappy when a suggestion is made? I mean, yes you can add a bird or lizard to your dream. Of course, that is what most folks do. Of course they can compromise. But they are simply suggesting that DEP could possibly consider making their own official byrdde or wyrmme in the future (forgive me if i spelt those wrong) because I too have seen a lot of digoless green canines and such roleplaying as lizardlike beings. Not so much birds, as yes there is a phoenix and a gryphon to choose from, but birds and lizards in general are still quite popular species.

I do think a noble lizard and/or bird would be amazing, as I have a bird character myself and would probably purchase one.

(Not pointing at anyone in particular of course, just a little observation.)

[Lors]

I just follow this rule:

If DEP says they'll NEVER add something, they will within the next couple years.

Humans, Ferals, and Gendered Avatars are proof.

[Kikaida]

I'm just curious - why does it usually seem like someone gets snappy when a suggestion is made? I mean, yes you can add a bird or lizard to your dream. Of course, that is what most folks do. Of course they can compromise. But they are simply suggesting that DEP could possibly consider making their own official byrdde or wyrmme in the future (forgive me if i spelt those wrong) because I too have seen a lot of digoless green canines and such roleplaying as lizardlike beings. Not so much birds, as yes there is a phoenix and a gryphon to choose from, but birds and lizards in general are still quite popular species.

I do think a noble lizard and/or bird would be amazing, as I have a bird character myself and would probably purchase one.

I half agree with this, it's bad enough that players are getting somewhat snappy, but it seems that the staff get unnecessarily snappy towards whoever posts something they said and form their own opinion.

While I do agree that birds and reptiles are needed, I also find the need to lay out carefully that the Furcadia DEP should be a bit more cordial.