Avatar Spaces? Options

[Peep]

Port spaces.

Why not avatar spaces?

They would have to be treated just like portrait spaces, in a way that they would have to be approved and what not.
I'm not sure how they would be rendered or downloaded; not that I know how portraits are either. However, there should be an option that turned them on or off for those with slower computers.

Perhaps an option that only turns the avatar of someone else on when you click them, alike to portraits.

I've told a couple people about this idea. And the only things they seem to think might be a problem is the fact that people would be immature about it--but with the same approval that portraits go through, I hardly think that would be an issue.

Not sure how much they would be or anything; but I think it would be a wonderful default local space that would be used for someone's custom avatar; and the owners could replace it in their dream as they see fit.
Thought that would be an interesting twist.


Of course this IS just a suggestion..

[Kamose]

This popular suggestion has been rejected on the grounds that it would create massive lag and would give players too much control over the appearance of main maps. See Frequently Suggested Avatars for other threads that discuss this.

In 2004, Talzhemir wrote an excellent explanation of why we won't see custom avatars. Although it's an old post, most of her points are still relevant.

2. FURREALITY

I'm against patching individuals' avatars in Furcadia because that gives more main-map control away than I want to. Furcadia is, first and foremost... furries. I've got nothing against walking teapots or stormclouds, but we're advertising ourselves as a "furry" place, and, by Mickey, that's what patrons are gonna get.

I'm grateful that Furcadia players tend to upload mostly furry animal portraits. Every so often, though, there are some non-furry ones. As long as they're not R-rated, we just smile, and say Thank you VERY much.

Having custom walkabouts on the main maps would be much more disruptive, though. I say this because the games I've seen that permitted it (for example, http://www.thepalace.com/) were chaotic and "twinky." By that, I mean, the avatars that people tended to choose were as extremely god-like as they could find, and sometimes they weren't a character, they were just a big picture of a
face.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with an anything-goes kind of game like that but if done on Furcadia, it would have severely hurt the potential for Strict RP.

(While they're an almost tiny minority, Strict RPers tend to also be the furres who give the most of themselves. I strongly want to give them something back if we can.)

3. DOWNLOADS: THE DREADED N-SQUARED OVERHEAD PROBLEM

Bear in mind that Furcadia runs on ONE machine. Every portrait being viewed for the first time is being spewed out the same byte spiggot. A portrait is 10K. A small avatar such as the bunny is about 82K.

Viewing a portrait doesn't affect what you see when you move around the little scenery window. It takes a fast machine just a blink but a player on a slower connection (say dial-up) would be frozen for around 4 seconds each time a new walkabout was downloaded.

Now imagine what would happen to them if they walked into a Dream where 5 furres with custom walkabouts are standing there.

Bear in mind that, as this furre had to get 5 new downloads, at some point, all of those 5 also got sent copies of each other.

(If the number of furres is 5, then the number of downloads total is 5 to the second power, or, 25. N to the second power, or N-Squared. This is the dreaded N-Squared Overhead problem, where the resources needed for things you trade this way can skyrocket out of control fairly fast!)

When you buy a Port, you're partly paying for some DEP person to peek at it and okay it. But a bit of your moolah also went to defray the future bandwidth sapped by every time someone had to download it to look at it.

4. MUTUALNESS

For those who had limited bandwidth, I didn't think toggling Custom Walkabouts to "OFF" was a good idea. It solves the freezing problem but Furcadia is meant to have "mutualness", meaning, we all see the same thing. You could patch all your avatars to be fruits with big eyes and big feet but you have to go fairly out of your way to accomplish it.

Knowing that we are seeing the same thing brings a sense of unity with others in our virtual space. Experiencing different things drives us apart like a wall or wedge.

I wouldn't favor letting furres see the custom avatars but letting others turn them off. It kicks mutualness in the 'nads. Some furres seeing furres, and others seeing a giant talking apple, is confusing.

When someone turns their Music or Sound FX off, Mutuality has just been kicked in the shins. We didn't like adding it but we did see the point and we added the buttons.

[Peep]

Well thank you for such a speedy reply!
I was hoping that it wasn't already so deeply thought out; but I understood there would be quite a fair bit of lag involved if everyone was to go through with this without an off button.

However I still stand by my word; they could be approved. So as for the whole, worrying about quality of them thing, I'm sure if it did happen (which I highly doubt it would; just saying for the sake of it) there would have to be a set standard for them (pure quality; shading, shape, size, and detail, etcetc) and a couple of underlying requirements (such as breed/species, E8, etcetc). The rest of the argument, I have to agree with.
It's completely logical why they wouldn't go through with that. Thought it was worth a try. c:


You can probably just delete this thread right away, considering it's been suggested so many times.

[super villain]

I think flying toasters and local species pretty much make that FURREALITY reason obsolete... If localspecies can be turned off from furres coming from a dream, to a main map, I dont see why 'avatar spaces' couldn't be turned off as well.. But besides that... Flying toasters..

[Justin StinCoy]

Quoth super villain:
I think flying toasters and local species pretty much make that FURREALITY reason obsolete... If localspecies can be turned off from furres coming from a dream, to a main map, I dont see why 'avatar spaces' couldn't be turned off as well.. But besides that... Flying toasters..

I disagree. Furreality is not damaged because avatars one does not approve of can be seen. Furreality is damaged when people in the same area are not seeing the same things at the same time.

On the main maps, everyone sees the flying toasters popping by. There (usually) are no local species or special patches on main maps, and in those rare times there are, everyone on the main map can see them. Furreality is maintained.

If a dreamweaver uses local species and turns off flying toasters in their dreams, everyone in that dream is still seeing the same thing. Furreality is maintained.

However, there are limits. Due to the nature of Furcadia, one can patch over the default folder, thereby turning flying toasters into tribbles. Furreality has been kicked in the groin, but the user is then only messing themselves up instead of impinging on other players' connections and experiences.

[super villain]

You are combining both points, when they were meant to be standalone.

I meant toasters break the 'theme', and that like local species, the 'avatar space' could be turned off PERIOD on the main maps. Everyone would still see the exact same thing..

But there are other options as well, like a default 'avatar space' that everyone sees until they click the furre, then they load the avatar, and that would more or less fix the problem you mention, at least in the sense people would KNOW the people have an 'avatar space', just not know what it is until they click them.

[Kamose]

So as for the whole, worrying about quality of them thing, I'm sure if it did happen (which I highly doubt it would; just saying for the sake of it) there would have to be a set standard for them (pure quality; shading, shape, size, and detail, etcetc) and a couple of underlying requirements (such as breed/species, E8, etcetc).

The trouble with quality control is that most of the avatars submitted by players would not meet DEP's rigorous standards. Furcadia's official avatars have specific requirements concerning their perspective and style. Although there are some nice player-made avatars, "very very few of the ones players make even come close to meeting the requirements for perspective."

Actually most avatars are not close enough to Furcadia style and specifications though and that is the biggest trouble. The very biggest trouble is that they are not in perspective. Over two and up one from every knee, shoulder, eartip, etc. If they aren't at least mostly in perspective we can't even begin to make them a Furcadia avatar. . . . Ferian style avatars are the most common and probably the very worst ones for not being in perspecive or not having usable animation.

[Felorin]

Long term, we do want to work out when technology will make this feasible without it being a significant source of lag. Computers and internet connections get faster each year, eventually it'll be practical. At that point we can try to work out the design and social issues to see what we could do about fitting it into the game. I wouldn't want to jump the gun too early though, say at a time when 70% of our players have computers and internet connections that could handle it fine, but 30% of our players would suddenly find Furcadia running as slow as molasses.

If we get patchable attachments implemented, that might provide an intermediate stage, where you could have some smaller amount of avatar customization - but with less lag, and a lot less art to draw to make something. We'll see how things go - as always, it's impossible to forecast in advance when any particular new feature will get done.

[Peep]

The trouble with quality control is that most of the avatars submitted by players would not meet DEP's rigorous standards. Furcadia's official avatars have specific requirements concerning their perspective and style. Although there are some nice player-made avatars, "very very few of the ones players make even come close to meeting the requirements for perspective."

Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough on my first post; my apologies. By quality control, I mean more of just a clean sweep to be sure it's not just a static image (that it walks/sits/etc), there is SOME quality to it (meaning, not just mindless scribbles--but to have a very clear shape and purpose), and that it is appropriate for all ages.
Though I have to agree, many of the custom-made avatars are not in the proper perspective; particularly the northern-facing poses. Which I find the most difficult to make in an avatar.

Long term, we do want to work out when technology will make this feasible without it being a significant source of lag.

That sounds pretty good to me!

Rather than having a free-for-all in avatars, there could just be an open space that allowed Furres to try out different avatars? Maybe have a Mythical Space; in which a player can try out all the mythical digos for a week or however long; a Seasonal Space in which a player can try out the seasonal digos of that timeframe (ex. Flox, Kiwi, Chinchilla, Woolie and Flynx for Spring) for a period of time; Wings Space, to try out all the wings for a period of time; and etc.
I, personally, find that I can never just pick one digo as it is. There's so many to choose from, and I think it would open people up to trying out the different digos, as well as give some variety without buying all your favorite digos for a year. Like a bulk package.